@pluralistic I've always wondered why I hear so much more about "undocumented immigrants" in the USA than anywhere else

@pluralistic That sounds awful!

And I'm German. Used to well-crafted bureaucratic mazes of considerable size. And very aware that our bureaucracy is also much harder for immigrants and other less privileged groups.

But I think it's not *that* cruel. And does not have *such* open ties to capitalist profit-seeking by immigration lawyers et al.

@pluralistic Another another Canadian who had to deal with it (in my case through marriage which is supposedly the easiest path) it still took close to 8 years and more lawyers fees and application fees than I care to think about.

@pluralistic Horrendous. I'm a privileged white guy who emigrated to the U.S. on a green card in 1977. No lawyers. I made one visit to the U.S. Embassy in London, and after a short outsourced medical exam, the Ambassador shook my hand and said, "We're glad you're coming to the United States."

Didn't even think of becoming a citizen until 1994. No lawyers. The paper application was easy to fill out. After an interview, I was "naturalized" at a surreal ceremony in Derby Line, VT.

No more. 😡

@pluralistic
Whenever anyone says they're "proud to be an American" I congratulate them on getting through the US naturalization process, which is difficult. If they respond they were just born there, I have to say "dude, your parents did that, not you!"

@pluralistic the cruelty is of course the point.

It's similar here in the UK. "If only they came here legally", the Reformers cry about refugees arriving on small boats. As if A) this isn't actually legal and 😎 this doesn't only happen because all practical routes have been shut down by the government.

@pluralistic

I'm surprised about your experience. As a European, I thougt, that #US/#Gilead (and other American) #immigration works as easy as:

"You go there, kill the existing population, and settle. Optionally, BYOS (bring your own slaves) from elsewhere."

It used to be like that. Good ol' times.

#colonialism #genocide #slavery #racism

@pluralistic @NicksWorld It absolutely makes me want to throw things every time I see some yahoo talking about how they don’t hate immigrants, they just need to do it the right way. Right now, there ostensibly is no right way, because all avenues are being blocked. And even those who have been doing it the so-called right way are being snatched up and deported.

@jcsteh @pluralistic I have lived in the United States for nearly 30 years. The only thing left was the interview, but I withdrew my citizenship application in 2017. You can probably guess why.

@pluralistic the whole morning of deporting people who have open pending cases is absolutely atrocious and nobody is doing Jack shit about it. It's like the one clear thing they can bring uscis to court on

@pluralistic

Meanwhile a certain E. Musk probably did a lot of that perjuring and defrauding.

But hey, if you can hang Kesslers syndrome over all our heads then I really meant to say that he is a really swell guy...

@pluralistic

"it's obvious to me that Americans have *no idea* how weird and tortuous their immigration system is:"

Why would we?

None of us have ever passed through it, and very few of us have ever assisted anyone though it

Have you collected data on the immigration process from other countries, to compare?

Have you collected information from people world-wide about their understanding of their own country's immigration process?

It's obvious to me that few non-Americans have any idea how to see things from an American point of view

@pluralistic Why would anyone - especially a canadian - even want to be s US citizen, is beyond me!