Discussion
Aight, give me your programming language chain of development.
Use a prefix, - for just a little, + for a whole lot, and you can repeat.
For myself, the kind of reply I'm looking for, my own programming language chain, in the next post.
-BASIC
-Z80/8080
+Pascal
-8086
-dbase
-dataflex
-Modula-2
+C
+sh/sed/awk (occasionally since the 1980s)
-80386
+C++
-Java
-Perl
++C++
-Java
-Ruby
++C++
-Python
++C++
not sure about the correct sequencing. exposure to other languages happened. modern C++ is so different from what I (we) did in the 1990s, a lot of teaching programming.
@PeterSommerlad Oh, dataflex, yes, I have - there too. And idunno, should I have mentioned SysVr2, which is basically everything we can do today from bash?
@PeterSommerlad I mean, especially sed, cuz wtf how the fuck did they even make that. I remember the first time I wrote sed script. I *glowed* for a week.
@GeePawHill @PeterSommerlad I once wrote a sed script that used loops, just to get that experience in more advanced sed usage. I was so proud of getting it going at the time (and I still use the script¹), but in retrospect it was a stunt trick and I should have used a better fitting language.
¹ It filters out uninteresting headers in email messages in my extremely eccentric (Unix) email environment.
@GeePawHill teaching sed made me a better vi/ex/ed user
@GeePawHill
i worked as a trainer teaching C, UNIX and tools in the late 1980s while still a university student.
and I forgot lex and yacc
-BASIC (mostly I played collossal cave)
-Forth (first real language)
-6502 (first of a dozen different assemblers)
+Forth (hardcore, expert level)
-Fortran
-C
-Pascal (Turbo, then Delphi)
-80x86 (a fucking nightmare)
+C
++Forth (published library writer)
+C++
-Python (a couple projects in the oughties)
+Java (kicking and screaming)
+Kotlin (java except you only have to say things once)
Assemblers spread all through the Forth periods, cuz I became an expert implementor of Forth on new CPU's.
@GeePawHill Here's mine:
School:
+BASIC (Vic-20/C64/Amiga; wrote games, 3D engine, raytracer, genetic algs)
+68k (fractals, 3D engine)
-C
Undergrad:
-Modula-2
-Miranda
-Prolog
-6502 assembler
-Fortran
Postgrad:
+Prolog (PhD thesis)
Perl/PHP (blog engines)
Java
Haskell (teaching)
-Python (dabbling)
Academia:
+Python (research, teaching)
+Haskell
+Ruby (wiki & blog engines)
Javascript
R
-Clojure
Industry:
++Python
++Java
+SQL
Haskell
-C++
Hobbies:
+Teletype
Typescript
Lua
@GeePawHill
+BASIC
- a wee bit of Forth
- 6502
- FORTRAN
+ REXX
- Pascal
- C
- dBase III/IV
+ Clipper
+ C
+ x86 assembler
+ PowerBuilder
+ Java
+ Javascript
+ C
+ Ruby/Rails
- Python
+ Java
+ Javascript
+ Typescript
+ Ruby
+ Javascript
@GeePawHill
- Basic
- TMS9900 Assembly (it was actually good)
- 6502 Assembly (what? You can't load an Address with one instruction?)
- 68k Assembly (now we're talking! moveq.l #0,d0 takes one cycle less than the same with a move.l #0,d0)
- C (stupid aztec compiler, why are you pushing every parameter to the stack only to the call a shim that picks them off the stack and puts them into the canonical AmigaOS Parameter Registers and then call the library routine? You're wasting dozens of cycles)
@GeePawHill let’s see if I can recall them all:
-Timeshare BASIC
-Fortran 4? 77?
-BASIC (first programming class)
+C64 BASIC (first $ from programming)
+Fortran 77 (college physics and compsci)
+Pascal
-Modula-2 (just Pascal with silly guardrails)
+ADA
-Motorola 68000 assembler
+K&R C
-LISP
+GMAP assembler (first job out of college)
+++ANSI C
-C++ (hated it)
+++Java
+C#
-JavaScript
-Ruby
-Python
-Java, -C#, -Ruby, -F# (in the book)
-Rust (a tiny bit last week)
🤓
@GeePawHill “Welcome to Adventure! Would you like instructions?” 😍
That, and Super Star Trek, both on a Honeywell Bull GCOS8 system.
@GeePawHill
-- Pascal
C
-- C++
Java
-- Perl
++ C#
+ JavaScript
+ TypeScript
Go
@GeePawHill
-JS
+Java
-C#
+Kotlin
--C
---Zig
--Rust
-C
---C++
--Rust
+Kotlin
I heavily dislike Rust syntax, if it's not clear.
@lax Yeah, my team was reviewing some Rust code a member had written, and he was out sick, so I had to run the 2 hour session.
At the end, I noped right out of Rust forever.
@GeePawHill
+ BASIC
- PASCAL
- Occam 2
- ML
+ C++
+ C#
- JavaScript
+ Python
- Haskell
+ Typescript
+ Java
+ C++
I mean, there a couple of - - things, too. I've played with Lisp, played with Modula, played with LogLan, played with Rust one time for almost an hour.
But none of those justify a proper "-", so I didn't mention them.
And that's a career. I'm retired, and don't code for a living any more.
I think, in offering and comparing these lists, we should notice some things.
1) For all the people who've been in the trade longer than a decade, they're *lists*.
2) The thing that binds us together as geeks isn't really what we believe now, it's what we have been through.
3) Old-schoolers have more in common than we do apart.
4) There's nothing quite like knowing a language inside and out.
5) There's nothing quite like knowing someone who knows another language inside and out.
6) Love.
> "5) There's nothing quite like knowing someone who knows another language inside and out."
That's pretty much the old-school definition "hacker." 😈
(Yes, I've got stories to tell! 😆 )
Yea; I *HATE IT* when contracting companies insist that I list *ALL* the languages, tools, libraries, systems, and such that I've ever used, and my level of expertise in each. They can't understand how it could take more than a few minutes. But to accurately report most of it takes me *hours*. It's a Very Tedious Exercise.
As I mentioned above, I have learned new languages over weekends, and started work on them on Monday.
I'm paraphrasing Wil Wheaton cuz I don't like his word choice, tho I love the expressed idea.
What makes us geeks isn't *what* we love, it's *how* we love it.
My favorites, across that stretch?
Forth. The 68k. C++ before template meta-programming. Kotlin.
I code almost everything today in Kotlin.
In the early days of Java, I was known to say, …
“As a programmer, I prefer C++, as a more powerful tool.
But as a manager, I prefer Java. Because *Where are you going to find really good competent C++ programmers?!?*”
After that, I dropped C++ and went into Java. Easier to get work that way.
You have to be *Really, REALLY* disciplined to *NOT* shoot yourself in the foot with C/C++/assembly. (Yes, I know about the restricted subsets of C++ that are much safer.)
Forth was an awesome language. I couldn't get enough of it. I've often said that I wished the early microcomputer industry had embraced Forth instead of BASIC. Forth teaches Modular Programming! (BASIC rots your brain.)
Likewise, the Motorola 68k machine and assembly language was beautiful -- a work of art. Everything Intel produced was an Ugly Hack. And still is.
Logo
BASIC
(Turbo) Pascal
Prolog
Scheme
+Java
C++
-Python
PHP
+JavaScript
Objective C / C
+Kotlin
Dart
Starting with functional programming in a Lisp dialect was a good call by my father who introduced my early to programming. But people used to make fun because it was not BASIC and a 🐢, you know?
Did most real programming in Java and still like it. But also prefer and love Kotlin. It gets rid of boilerplate and null pointer problems while uniting OOP with FP.
@rhold Interesting path, very *mixed*, if I do say so. I don't know many folk who played Scheme. Now, coming down with Kotlin and then Dart, you seem fairly "static typed".
@GeePawHill yes, I am good Sir.
Can't say I understand those folks who hate it. For my it's the other way round.
Only exception: JavaScript vs. Typescript (i forgot to mention it). TS tooling is so clumsy it feels like a heavily patched and barley working JS.
I started on the professional side with web dev (hence the dreaded PHP) and switched to mobile. Most other stuff I picked up in university. Never ever started to learn a language 4 fun.
@GeePawHill
Have you looked at C++ in the last decade. what used to require template meta programming is just "normal" C++ constexpr code. the language got simpler to use, while becoming more powerful. However, classic OOP with virtual is kind of an anti-pattern and should/can be encapsulated, simpler static polymorphism and value-based/functional programming instead
@PeterSommerlad Honest answer: "fuck no". :)
@GeePawHill C++ became a much different language starting with the 2011 standard, we even get static reflection in 26
unfortunately, too many programmers still get educated/only know the legacy features from the 1990s.
@GeePawHill how is there no Perl on that list, this is a travesty
@darkuncle I did a gig 10 years ago in a Perl shop. I was fired, for reasons unrelated to Perl, but I was like, upside, I don't have to roll Perl any more. :)
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