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@ChrisMayLA6
They could have cared even slightly about losing the progressive vote any time in the last 10 years, and they wouldn't have to fear it now that it's happening.

They even had a recent clear warning: at the last GE the Greens took some seats. The seal is broken; nobody can say Green is a wasted vote now.

That was the time to understand Labour's election win came not from moving right, but disgust with the Tories, and how fragile it'd be if their "Change" slogan was empty.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

@[email protected] replied · 18 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 And if one day the Greens win power ...

... they will suddenly realise that FPTP isn't so bad after all, and that in fact voting reform is a long way down their priority list.

Andy Dearden

@[email protected] replied · 14 hours ago

@TimWardCam @ChrisMayLA6 It's worth noting how these parties actually handle their internal elections. Labour use AV for candidate selection. Greens use STV for candidate selection and multi-seat committees, and always include RON (re-open nominations) as an option. Green commitment to PR is actually baked in at a very foundational level.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 18 hours ago

@TimWardCam

Sadly, that has been what has happened with previous political parties advocating for electoral change.... thinking the Greens might be different is the triumph of however experience...

DamonHD

@[email protected] replied · 18 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 @TimWardCam The conflict of interest is so bare of course - why demolish the voting scheme that just got you into power?

A well-informed electorate can work round many of the rough edges of FTFP. I do not want party lists and sycophancy above all. I just got to understand and like the scheme in the Bunderstag, now changed, but would take any reasonable alternative where I am voting for an individual first. On that basis I have voted across parties for example...

Pete Alex Harris🦡🕸️🌲/∞🪐∫

@[email protected] replied · 19 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6
They could have cared even slightly about losing the progressive vote any time in the last 10 years, and they wouldn't have to fear it now that it's happening.

They even had a recent clear warning: at the last GE the Greens took some seats. The seal is broken; nobody can say Green is a wasted vote now.

That was the time to understand Labour's election win came not from moving right, but disgust with the Tories, and how fragile it'd be if their "Change" slogan was empty.

Donald Roy

@[email protected] replied · 15 hours ago

@petealexharris @ChrisMayLA6

Just enough of them understood in the summer of 2024 - and one of them - #vidhyaalakeson - was in a position to act - to be able to prevent #shabanaMahmood , #jessphillips and #wesstreeting from sharing the fate of #thangamdebonaire and #jonathanashworth . There are some suggestions that their authority has increased - with the departure of #morganmcsweeney and others. Somebody there may even got round to reading the latest version of #thebritishelectionstudy!

Donald Roy

@[email protected] replied · 15 hours ago

@petealexharris @ChrisMayLA6

However it may prove to be too late. The legacy of #morganmcsweeney , #petermandelson , #labourtogether and their various allies and fellow travellers may be just too debilitating for #uklabour to recover from. However that is by no means certain.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 14 hours ago

@djr2024 @petealexharris

Yes, I think this is the key Q.: can Labour draw a line under al of that & reconfigure.... my guess is the inculcation of the party by the Right (of Labour) has been too great, but who knows

Donald Roy

@[email protected] replied · 12 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 @petealexharris

If it can be done it will take time - several months at best - and the risk is that the electorate may have moved by then to a point where #Laɓour has settled down as an alternative rather than the leading contender for left of centre support.

Pino Carafa

@[email protected] replied · 18 hours ago

@petealexharris @ChrisMayLA6 This is the one saving grace in the UK's version of their FPTP system. In the UK, "hung" parliaments are at least possible. The FPTP system makes them a lot less common, but it can happen.

So if the Greens find themselves in a "Kingmaker" position, there is one thing they must insist on: a hard commitment from their coalition partner to replace the FPTP voting system with something like PR-STV or vanilla PR. No coalition without it. Period.

Scurra

@[email protected] replied · 17 hours ago

@rozeboosje @petealexharris @ChrisMayLA6
Yeah, well, look how the LibDems got screwed with that one. (TBH, they didn't really understand either the power they had or the fate that inevitably awaited them as a junior partner if the system didn't change.) But it's also true that the situation has changed drastically since 2010 and if Labour or the Tories want to survive, they will need to do it.

Pino Carafa

@[email protected] replied · 12 hours ago

@Scurra @petealexharris @ChrisMayLA6

1/2

This is the problem that every "junior" coalition partner faces. The bigger party is usually voted in by people who simply vote for them for no better reason than that they always have. The smaller party gets more votes than usual because voters have high hopes. At the end of the term the bigger party is fine because nobody had high expectations of THEM, while the small party gets clobbered because their voters are disappointed in them.

Pino Carafa

@[email protected] replied · 12 hours ago

@Scurra @petealexharris @ChrisMayLA6

2/2

The Lib Dems should have realised this. Their strategy should have been: change the voting system, if nothing else, do that. Accept that they will lose votes in the next election, but with the new system in place the end result may actually be surprisingly reasonable, even for them. Now leverage the new system for better results.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 11 hours ago

@rozeboosje @Scurra @petealexharris

They did try that but made a hash of the referendum....

1 more replies (not shown)

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 18 hours ago

@rozeboosje @petealexharris

Agreed! 💯

Walrus 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@[email protected] replied · 19 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6

Maybe Labour should have tried not being the same as the Tories?

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 19 hours ago

@Walrus 👍

BashStKid

@[email protected] replied · 21 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 Stand by to see if Labour would rather split the vote and let Reform win, than follow the tactical voting advice it’s been so keen to cram down everyone else for years.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 21 hours ago

@BashStKid

Indeed, given the possibility that in some future by-elections the advice may be *to* vote Labour tactically, it will be interesting to watch how they frame their likely hypocrisy on the issue

Lucy B

@[email protected] replied · 12 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 @BashStKid based on my experience canvassing for the Greens over the last month, and living in the constituency, I am 100% convinced that Labour are going after the Green vote. They're happy to split the vote if it means the Greens don't win.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 12 hours ago

@linuxlucy @BashStKid

So much for being worried about Reform UK Ltd, then....

Alex P Roe

@[email protected] replied · 21 hours ago

@ChrisMayLA6 I hear Portugal and Spain have given their economies a boost by making employment less precarious and regularising immigrants. Right leaning policies only ever seem to benefit a tiny, already wealthy, minority.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

@[email protected] replied · 21 hours ago

@alex_p_roe

ain't that the truth....

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