So it's either 'character is a bastard but the whole system is rotten' like Wolf of Wall Street. Or 'character is rotten but charming' like Arsene Lupin. Or the grimdark moral fantasy that fuelled 00s epic fantasy like Prince of Thorns (everyone in this book is a bastard so you, thd reader, can feel better about being a self-serving piece of shit).

But very rare to find stories that are litterally about the joys of watching horrible elites get chewed up by a black-eyed assassin.

@[email protected] @[email protected] I must admit that I loath Deadpool who doesn't really come across as loveable to me at all, so I may not be the best judge there. And you don't get much blanker than Wick.

But I suppose I'm not really seeing the line between people like Punisher and Lone Wolf, so I may have missed part of the essence of what you're saying.​

@SJohnRoss You are correct about Parker. Parker is definitely a hyper-bastard deployed against bastards with institutional backing. Similar jouissanxe based in amoral competence porn.

@[email protected] @[email protected] Isn't this also basically the Punisher, Deadpool, etc? Obviously not nice people, sometimes in fairly upbeat settings (if not always upbeat stories) but who only interact with enemies who are so obivously worse than them that they appear... not quite as morally bankrupt. See also things like John Wick, although that has the whole glanced at initially redemption overtones that are almost part of the character if you squint hard enough.​